Lisa Whybourn on the financial reality of being a tennis player & why so many players give up in their teens

PaulM · Tennis legend

Lisa Whybourn on the financial reality of being a tennis player & why so many players give up in their teens

embee · Junior player

Here are two interviews with Lisa that have appeared in our paper today where she talks about the financial hardship of being on tour and also how she was advised to give up tennis shortly before she broke on to the main tour.

She touches on quite a number of issues in both articles, I hope they're of interest.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Sport/Sport-headlines/Why-playing-at-Wimbledon-made-all-Lisa-Whybourns-sacrifices-worthwhile-20130705090000.htm

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Sport/Other-Sports/They-told-me-to-give-up-because-I-wouldnt-make-it-says-Lisa-Whybourn-20130705090000.htm

steven · Tennis legend

Really good articles, thanks.

Nice to see her try to nail one of the biggest lies around with this:

Theres this concept that Russian people are all poor and thats why theyre so good because they have to fight for everything, but it really isnt the case. Pretty much all their parents will be loaded or theyll have unbelievable sponsors.

Thats what they have abroad that we dont have in England because everyone assumes we get all this money from the LTA.

The Knight · Challenger qualifying

steven wrote:
Nice to see her try to nail one of the biggest lies around with this:

Theres this concept that Russian people are all poor and thats why theyre so good because they have to fight for everything, but it really isnt the case. Pretty much all their parents will be loaded or theyll have unbelievable sponsors.

Thats what they have abroad that we dont have in England because everyone assumes we get all this money from the LTA.

I've looked through a lot of the biographies of the ATP top 100 and most of their parents seem to be doctors, bankers, engineers etc...people complain about tennis being a sport of privilege in this country but the truth is that's what it's like around the globe

steven · Tennis legend

Yes, and it also illustrates what I think it one of the biggest problems over here - because the media goes on and on about how much money the LTA gets and how spoilt the players supposedly are, it is assumed that no players really need sponsorship and the LTA are expected to do everything.

The reason there are far more tennis courts in France than in the UK isn't because the French Federation built them all, it's because giving people the opportunity to keep fit is given a much higher priority by national and local government over there.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
Yes, and it also illustrates what I think it one of the biggest problems over here - because the media goes on and on about how much money the LTA gets and how spoilt the players supposedly are, it is assumed that no players really need sponsorship and the LTA are expected to do everything.

The reason there are far more tennis courts in France than in the UK isn't because the French Federation built them all, it's because giving people the opportunity to keep fit is given a much higher priority by national and local government over there.

Absolutely.

Every French village (of 1000 people or so) will have a public tennis club (not just courts but a fully functioning club, with tennis school for kids, teams etc.). Every small town will have a couple of clubs. A larger town will have about 6 clubs etc. etc. These will all have at least one indoor court as well as outdoor courts (for the villages, the indoor court may well be in a shared gym i.e. a court which also gets used for handball etc.) but the other clubs have their own courts.

None of these clubs are private (not allowed).

And the clubs are ALL subsidised, in one way or other, not only by the FFT but also (and mainly) by the sports' body of the local councils and the regional councils. This subsidy takes a lot of different forms - some get cash, some clubs pay no property taxes, some get free utilities, lots get a free caretaker/groundsman/clubhouse staff provided by the council. Capital expenses usually fall under the FFT subsidies but may also be council funded too.

As Steven says, it's part of the public health policy.

And, yes, tennis is still more middle-class than football, say, but it is the second most widely-practiced sport in the country (behind football), the top individual sport. It really is open to all.

Kids whose parents are on benefits get sports vouchers to offset the price of sports lessons (not just in tennis). And fees are low (thanks, effectively, to the councils) - club membership to a good club with 4 outside courts and 2 indoor ones, book when you like (and as often as you like) throughout the year, kids have the same playing and booking rights, play in teams, attend fun doubles days etc. etc. - it costs about GBP 100 a year for a single person (less if you're a student, OAP or unemployed).

embee · Junior player

You've pretty much covered it there, Coup Droit - it seems tennis is such a big part of the culture in France whereas over here that really isn't the case.

For a long time I've felt that the authorities in the UK - the government (regardless of who's in power) and local councils - take a very narrow minded view of sport. As long as I can remember it's always been undervalued and shifted to the back of the priorities. The Olympics maybe changed that slightly but here in Cambridge trying to get any kind of approval for sporting facilities is a nightmare. Unless you're the university, in which case it seems, anything goes.

The bizarre thing is, people in the UK have a huge interest and passion for watching sport. We can't get enough of it. Yet we don't play it any where near enough, and that's partly down to us as individuals (and governing bodies) but also down to a lack of 'encouragement' from on high and a culture that's obsessed with building more and more houses yet without any major provision for sports facilities that the local communties can benefit from.

Spectator · All-time great

It's not just sport, though. If you do any work that involves local government in UK and Europe, you can't help but notice the difference in the assumptions about levels of government funding for what might best be termed "quality of life." There are positives and negatives on both sides (that's a long discussion!) but it cuts across all kinds of fields.

Ratty · County player

I don't want to sound like a member of the Tea Party, but doesn't "government funding" of sporting facilities just mean getting one's fellow taxpayers to subsidise one's pleasures? Why should they?

Although having said that, France has significantly lower obesity rates than the UK, so maybe the public good is worth it.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, absolutely, Ratty. The money doesn't come from thin air - tax rates in France, overall, are horrendous. If you want to start a business, do NOT go to France.
However, if you wish to play tennis, France is brilliant. You can't have everything, I guess . . .

Wakey · Junior player

Coup Droit wrote:

Absolutely.
Every French village (of 1000 people or so) will have a public tennis club (not just courts but a fully functioning club, with tennis school for kids, teams etc.). Every small town will have a couple of clubs. A larger town will have about 6 clubs etc. etc. These will all have at least one indoor court as well as outdoor courts (for the villages, the indoor court may well be in a shared gym i.e. a court which also gets used for handball etc.) but the other clubs have their own courts.
None of these clubs are private (not allowed).
And the clubs are ALL subsidised, in one way or other, not only by the FFT but also (and mainly) by the sports' body of the local councils and the regional councils. This subsidy takes a lot of different forms - some get cash, some clubs pay no property taxes, some get free utilities, lots get a free caretaker/groundsman/clubhouse staff provided by the council. Capital expenses usually fall under the FFT subsidies but may also be council funded too.
As Steven says, it's part of the public health policy.
And, yes, tennis is still more middle-class than football, say, but it is the second most widely-practiced sport in the country (behind football), the top individual sport. It really is open to all.
Kids whose parents are on benefits get sports vouchers to offset the price of sports lessons (not just in tennis). And fees are low (thanks, effectively, to the councils) - club membership to a good club with 4 outside courts and 2 indoor ones, book when you like (and as often as you like) throughout the year, kids have the same playing and booking rights, play in teams, attend fun doubles days etc. etc. - it costs about GBP 100 a year for a single person (less if you're a student, OAP or unemployed).

France does have one major advantage though and that both countries have a population roughly the same but the UK is 93,000 square miles compared to Frances 210,000 square miles. It makes land here so much more valuable which make it difficult for clubs to be able to expand which is a major issue because in my experiance unless you can attend the club during school/work hours you will have some waiting around to do to get a chance to get on a court. (Atleast souring the summer). and if a club wants to build indoor courts that's even worse because automatically indoor courts take up a much larger footprint.

So I'm not sure that even if tax breaks and the likes were given to clubs that it would help that much because they wold still need to generate enough money to expand and improve facilities and if the land is there to make tha viable its not gong to be cheap.

And Public courts aren't much easier. Tennis courts take up a fair amount of space and aren't really that suitable for Multi use unlike a grass field which can have its uses changed from Football to Rugby to Cricket as well as being suitable for dog walking and the likes. And with Tennis courts in public places not being cheap to maintain mainly due to misuse and intentional vandalism they will often plump for other uses of public land (especially as Tennis court usage is low in the winter)

Oh and ofc the weather helps as much of France is alot more suitable for year round outside tennis than the UK. If only there was a viable and cheap way of quickly converting outdoor courts to indoor/covered courts

steven · Tennis legend

Lisa has set herself up on the pledgesports site bit.ly/1jYrJeQ in a quest to raise £10,000 - for those who haven't seen this site before, sportspeople use it to raise money from independent sponsors, with incentives that range from being added to a list of supporters (for a £ 10 donation) to tennis lessons, tickets, etc for much higher amounts.

It seems to have attracted mainly Irish players so far, but Amy Bowtell and James Cluskey both managed to exceed their 10,000 targets, so it can work. Whether it's easier to attract people when your country has very few ranked players (and the media don't make it sound like all of that country's tennis pkayers have a cushy life), I don't know, but when you're in a country with loads of players who could try this, it's probably best to get in first! (though I realise Fitzy and maybe others have tried this on other sites with limited success)

Lisa is probably one of those most worth supporting too - a realistic even if not huge chance of one day making the top 100, been having injury problems for ages and now that she has taken the risk of an op to get it sorted out once and for all, it sounds like the LTA aren't helping too much (though who knows - I guess she's on the same bonus scheme as most of them)

Anyway, I hope it works for her

TomTraubert · Futures level

does anyone know if you can pay by bank transfer at all?
i cant find details on the sight

i dont have credit cards but want to help

ive sent them an email but just in case anyone here has done it before thanks for any info

also ive only got 2 twitter followers but i retweeted anyway (in case my sister and mate are interested ) and will do so a few times a week until the end of the campaign

if youre a popular tweep you could justg spread the message

-- Edited by TomTraubert on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 03:09:05 PM

paulisi · Tennis legend

I'm suprised they got 10K. Sean Thornley set up something similar on his website, but i'm not sure what money he achieved.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

paulisi wrote:
I'm suprised they got 10K. Sean Thornley set up something similar on his website, but i'm not sure what money he achieved.

Good marketing by the Irish players to US pro-Irish associations and sponsors? (I have a couple of irish friends in different domains completely who've been very successful fund-raising in the US).