Week 41 - Challenger 80 (€44,820) - Vesuvio Cup, Ercolano (Naples), Italy (clay)

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Week 41 - Challenger 80 (€44,820) - Vesuvio Cup, Ercolano (Naples), Italy (clay)

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

L16: Mats Hermans & Glenn Smits (NED/NED) CR 725 (380+345) vs Jay Clarke & Arjun Kadhe (IND) CR 1267 (1045+222)

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

L32: (Q) Alexander Ritschard (USA) WR 302 (CH = 296 last November) vs Jay Clarke WR 195

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

L32: (Q) Alexander Ritschard (USA) WR 302 defeated Jay Clarke WR 195 by 0 & 1 bleh

A scoreline like that would seem to imply that Jay was barely trying. cry

Priesty · Challenger level

It gets worse.........

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

The sort of score you come to expect. 1 win in 6 tournaments for Jay very worrying. However with Jay he'll go to make a final in a few weeks. Always seems to be a great week or a nothing week.

YasminClarke · Improver

I occasionally read the board and I have to say Im pretty disappointed by the tone in which you regularly talk about my brother.
Hes 23 and has already won 2 challengers and 4 finals. Today the guy was pretty unbelievable, I havent watched a match like that in quite some time and to suggest he wasnt trying is just down right disrespectful.
Anyone who knows Jay knows how hard he works both on and off the court. From your comments you would think he was 500 and losing in futures qualies. Ritchsard was NCAA champion 3 times from 2014-16 so the guy knows how to play.
And yes he hasnt had a brilliant year but has still made a final, semi and a quarters. Of course we all want more and hes currently looking to secure a new coach to improve his game but the constant criticism from a supposed GB fans message board is pretty awful. Do better guys.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

I watched a bit of the stream from the 2nd set after seeing Steven post on Twitter. Id say on one hand its a freak result. Although its a guy who has never previously been top 300 in his 28th year. Would appear however hes playing some of the best tennis hes probably played. Seemed to return everything. So yes on paper a bad result but these things happen. Certainly wasnt the lack of trying, however I suppose initial look at the result would suggest either that or injury. A one off moment where everything clicks for one player is how it looked in the set I saw.

Also had a look at some of Alexanders previous opponents, hes lost to some decent players recently. Tallon Greikspoor twice, Joao Sousa and Botic Van de Zandschlup all of whom are essentially top 100 players. The latter heading into the top 50. So perhaps hes finding a level now like a Karatsev. We shall see.

Shhh · Challenger level

Thanks for posting Yasmin, and fair points. You are right in your comments of course but others come and leave the board as we are nothing but "cheerleaders". When we criticise that upsets too!

We are all supporters of GB tennis, pretty dedicated at that and I do not know of many supporters groups that are as fair minded as those on here. Seeing that Jay lost 0 & 1 to a player 100 places behind in in the rankings is a shock....thank you for the insight, its adds a lot of context. I am sure that it hurts to see your family criticised and I do not believe any insult was intended. Those on here would like nothing more than Jay to succeed and I am sure with his dedication better days will be ahead soon enough.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

YasminClarke wrote:
I occasionally read the board and I have to say Im pretty disappointed by the tone in which you regularly talk about my brother.
Hes 23 and has already won 2 challengers and 4 finals. Today the guy was pretty unbelievable, I havent watched a match like that in quite some time and to suggest he wasnt trying is just down right disrespectful.
Anyone who knows Jay knows how hard he works both on and off the court. From your comments you would think he was 500 and losing in futures qualies. Ritchsard was NCAA champion 3 times from 2014-16 so the guy knows how to play.
And yes he hasnt had a brilliant year but has still made a final, semi and a quarters. Of course we all want more and hes currently looking to secure a new coach to improve his game but the constant criticism from a supposed GB fans message board is pretty awful. Do better guys.

Well said Yasmin and thank you for writing - you are right, we often don't know anything about a situation and also comment very readily and easily in judgmental terms - I know I do often. We need to realise there are often reasons and people / pros clearly do try. We also need to remember that their friends and families often read the board and we need to be respectful. Thank you for reminding us of that - and please wish Jay all the best; I think everyone on here really does wish him well and hopes he fulfils his potential.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yasmin, I hadn't commented on this match (or many other of Jay's ones recently, unless I'd watched them on livestream).

And everyone wishes Jay well, and is thrilled when things are going his way, and concerned in a 'normal' way when they're not.

But this is not a 'good news only' board. No one is rude but nobody has to pussyfoot around overly acute sensibilities. After all, madadman made a very balanced comment, pointing out good and bad. Priesty hardly went overboard.

People are entitled to their opinions. SC did not suggest he wasn't trying. She said 'would seem to imply....'. As in, she wasn't watching it on livestream but the score itself could give that impression.
Steven who was watching the game tweeted he didn't think either player was playing very well (especially in the first set) but the American was a bit more aggressive.
And if the comments were negative, despite the other guy supposedly playing unbelievably, that's a reflection of the previous recent events too, a cumulation - it's the fourth challenger in quick succession where Jay's lost in the first round. It's perfectly normal that people type negative comments - it doesn't mean he's not supported, it means people recognise it's a negative little period.

ADD: and I don't agree with Jon that just because one person does not like the comments that we should not make them. They were not out of order. They were not rude.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Tuesday 12th of October 2021 02:49:46 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Yasmin, I hadn't commented on this match (or many other of Jay's ones recently, unless I'd watched them on livestream).

And everyone wishes Jay well, and is thrilled when things are going his way, and concerned in a 'normal' way when they're not.

But this is not a 'good news only' board. No one is rude but nobody has to pussyfoot around overly acute sensibilities. After all, madadman made a very balanced comment, pointing out good and bad. Priesty hardly went overboard.

People are entitled to their opinions. SC did not suggest he wasn't trying. She said 'would seem to imply....'. As in, she wasn't watching it on livestream but the score itself could give that impression.
Steven who was watching the game tweeted he didn't think either player was playing very well (especially in the first set) but the American was a bit more aggressive.
And if the comments were negative, despite the other guy supposedly playing unbelievably, that's a reflection of the previous recent events too, a cumulation - it's the fourth challenger in quick succession where Jay's lost in the first round. It's perfectly normal that people type negative comments - it doesn't mean he's not supported, it means people recognise it's a negative little period.
ADD: and I don't agree with Jon that just because one person does not like the comments that we should not make them. They were not out of order. They were not rude.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Tuesday 12th of October 2021 02:49:46 PM

I didnt say that, I said we need to be respectful. You got that wrong

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Yasmin, I hadn't commented on this match (or many other of Jay's ones recently, unless I'd watched them on livestream).

And everyone wishes Jay well, and is thrilled when things are going his way, and concerned in a 'normal' way when they're not.

But this is not a 'good news only' board. No one is rude but nobody has to pussyfoot around overly acute sensibilities. After all, madadman made a very balanced comment, pointing out good and bad. Priesty hardly went overboard.

People are entitled to their opinions. SC did not suggest he wasn't trying. She said 'would seem to imply....'. As in, she wasn't watching it on livestream but the score itself could give that impression.
Steven who was watching the game tweeted he didn't think either player was playing very well (especially in the first set) but the American was a bit more aggressive.
And if the comments were negative, despite the other guy supposedly playing unbelievably, that's a reflection of the previous recent events too, a cumulation - it's the fourth challenger in quick succession where Jay's lost in the first round. It's perfectly normal that people type negative comments - it doesn't mean he's not supported, it means people recognise it's a negative little period.
ADD: and I don't agree with Jon that just because one person does not like the comments that we should not make them. They were not out of order. They were not rude.
I didnt say that, I said we need to be respectful. You got that wrong

What I meant, Jon, was that you said Yasmin was right and that it was 'well said'.

But we WERE respectful, IMO. Nothing disrespectful or rude had been posted.

YasminClarke · Improver

Thanks you all for taking the time to reply. Apologises if it came across sharp, I just felt the comments were unfair and unwarranted (if you had watched the match). Context really is everything and to be honest Im not sure what Steven was watching because I was sat courtside and I can tell you Ritschard was on fire!
With Jack aside Jay is only GB player under 25 regularly competing in Challenger events. The level difference between futures and challengers is stark and four first round losses in a row is pretty regular at this level, look at any main draw players bio. And Im also under no illusion this is a good news board, I have previously seen the good and bad posts about Jay but at the moment its as if youre writing him off at 23 and 195 in the world. In my opinion the fantastic thing about Jay is that he has so much more to learn and improve on and with the right support and guidance time will only tell.
I suppose with it being World Mental Health Day 2 days ago I expected a little more support, you should know players regularly read your board and can take the comments on here to heart. Saying that I should just take Coup Droits reply with a pinch of salt, you always favoured Ryan Storrie over Jay when they were juniors.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Jasmin, you made me smile

And thanks for addressing the points carefully, full on, about the good and the bad. I wasn't dismissing your comments out of hand, of course not, just putting the other side, so to speak, as I honestly felt no one had been nasty.

And, yes, you're quite right, I did favour Ryan. But if you also remember, I always had Jay second. Now I know that might not be enough

, especially for a fond sister

, but I've got an old list here from yonks ago where I wrote that Ryan was first, in my list, and then Jay. And made 'nice' comments about both. And then had Ewan Moore and Alexis Canter - where the comments were far less nice (in terms of tennis careers, that is - nothing about them as people)

But we are most definitely on the same page - Jay is young (I'm strongly against the 'everything is decided by age 20' sort of approach), and is investing a lot of time and effort, and I often watch his matches on livestream when I can, it's a pleasure, and wish him all success.

NB However, just as we're being open, I do think that Jay lost some public support after dumping Harriet to play doubles with Coco. Now, there might have been reasons behind the scenes but there's no getting round it - it wasn't popular and, honestly, I think quite rightly unpopular.