Week 9 - Great Britain F6 ($10,000) - Shrewsbury (Hard)

RJA · Hall of fame

RE: Week 9 - Great Britain F6 ($10,000) - Shrewsbury (Hard)

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

At what age did Liam move back to training at the LTA? Did the change in coaching regime result in his game developing in a different way to previously? On the downside he seems a bit of a safer less exciting style of player now, on the plus side he usually seems calmer on court - presumably having more settled arrangements and fewer financial worries have helped with the latter.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RJA wrote:
indiana wrote:
There's something about, Liam, I think a rather hangdog lack of positivity ( although I can think of one guy that could still play very well with that ! ) combined with lack of really big shots, that has always had me doubting his ultimate progress, and wondering whether much less heralded players will go further. Whereas I am much more reassured going forward by what I see from Oli and Kyle.

But as CD says, Liam did have a good period last year. Would be very good if he could step up again, move on and disprove my doubts.
I was quite a fan of the 17 year old version of Liam but I am sorry to say that the 20 year old version doesn't really do much to inspire me. The latter would probably just beat the former because of improved fitness and superior defence but the big forehand that once looked like it could develop into a significant weapon seems to be completely gone. When I watch Liam now I see nothing in his game that makes him stand out from other decent futures level players.
As for his good period last year, it was 2 finals, 3 semi finals and 1 quarter final in his last 9 events of the year (3 first round defeats as well) which he achieved without beating a single player inside the top 600. So yes, he picked up some good points and obviously you can only beat the players in front of you but that run needs to be taken in context of who he beat.

Interesting. Because I know you've seen him play a fair bit and were, as you say, previously quite a fan.

I don't really rate junior tennis too much as a sign of senior potential (I know this has been talked about at reasonable length) so I don't really give too much importance to his junior career. And he's certainly still pretty young and has skill so there's a lot of time to move up. But it's certainly true that I didn't see anything, as you say, to make him stand out from the other decent futures players. (NB no dispute that he's a really nice guy, that's not in dispute).

philwrig · Hall of fame

Personally I believe if you can final at two junior slams, it does show alot of potential for someone's senior career. Obviously Liam has now got to produce on that potential, but he has had nothing but road blocks during his short senior career of various disguises. I think we were in a similar situation last year discussing Oli, and I tried my fullest to explain why it was far too early to write him off. Now I'd like to think most folk on here are more positive about him. Obviously with Kyle the progression has been much smoother, but I'm very confident that Liam will have a fine senior career, how high in the rankings do I think he'll go, I wouldn't like to put a number on it, but I can't see why it won't consist of 2 figures.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Don't get me wrong - as I said clearly, he's young and has skill and (as I constantly bleat on about) as the average age gets older I NEVER write people off but always believe that there's plenty of time (because there is).
But it still doesn't change the view from a few people that his game has not yet developed in the way that one would maybe have hoped/expected). The physical aspects of juniors and seniors is so different, especially in men, that I think that ,yes, it's obvious that doing well as a junior bodes well, but not much more than that, in my view.

indiana · Tennis legend

I too have quite often argued in respect of Oli, who I retained ( and retain ) a real belief in that I simply don't have in Liam.

I think history in the men's game will show a wide range of senior success for junior slam finalists. Yes, one could point to many great champions and there is undoubtably some correlation, but I suspect these that have not got to the top ( and maybe increasingly so ) are often these that have not greatly developed physically.

Liam is not exactly small, as many have pointed out, but I do think he will need to spend a lot of time such as in the gym to help him to be all he can be. Top 100 player, I doubt.

A posutive thing is that generally we here ( seemingly more than the LTA ) have long appreciated that many players can take time to really break through and / or their careers can temporarily stall at times.

RJA · Hall of fame

philwrig wrote:
Personally I believe if you can final at two junior slams, it does show alot of potential for someone's senior career. Obviously Liam has now got to produce on that potential, but he has had nothing but road blocks during his short senior career of various disguises. I think we were in a similar situation last year discussing Oli, and I tried my fullest to explain why it was far too early to write him off. Now I'd like to think most folk on here are more positive about him. Obviously with Kyle the progression has been much smoother, but I'm very confident that Liam will have a fine senior career, how high in the rankings do I think he'll go, I wouldn't like to put a number on it, but I can't see why it won't consist of 2 figures.

The problem is that the Liam that now plays has none of the attributes that made his 17 year old counterpart such a prospect while still possessing the significant weaknesses. There really is nothing in his game that makes me think there is any prospect of him being a top 100 player. I hope he proves me wrong because as many have said he is a genuinely nice lad, or at least he is away from the tennis court. Unfortunately his on court persona remains obnoxious in the extreme but for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt as he is a young man frustrated with how his career is progressing.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Interesting to see that Micke Kontinen looks like making the final given that Harry could and perhaps should have beaten him in the first round.

Obviously having seen Harry and followed his recent results, he is very competitive against players 450+ and higher and must be set to jump up the rankings at some stage with a few easier draws.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Not a great start from Josh - 4-0 down.

steven · Tennis legend

Josh has been bagelled in the 1st set

It's a bit of a Scandinavian takeover here this week, Kontinen having blasted his way through the top half.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Josh finally up and running as he wins his opening service game (just) in set 2

1-1*

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

But Josh really can't get anything going on the Arvidsson serve. In 5 games against the serve, he has won just 3 points.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Scoreboard glitch or MTO ?

Given the scoreline, it wouldn't surprise me if something is up with Josh.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

After a delay we re back in play, but Arvidsson break to love. Long way back from here.

1-3*

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Another love game to Arvidsson.

*1-4