Week 32 - WTA Premier 5, Rogers Cup ($2,83m) - Toronto, Canada - Hard

Michael D · All-time great

Week 32 - WTA Premier 5, Rogers Cup ($2,83m) - Toronto, Canada - Hard

LordBrownof · Futures level

Notwithstanding the point Rosamund makes, the Toronto courts are apparently playing incredibly slow which obviously doesn't suit Jo's game. I would argue that over the course of an entire year a loss to Yastremska isn't a bad one, add to that a prolonged break and change of surface, this wasn't a total surprise to me. Form will be more telling after the next tournament.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

I've been sat watching BT Sport and other Toronto matches on Bet365 pretty much from 5pm, and in all 8 matches thus far, literally every one of them has gone the way I was hoping, granted a lot of those were expected results, but that rarely ever happens, and there'll be some really good (for me) L16 and quarter final matches to look forward to as a result.

Edit - also chuffed for Andreescu battling back from 3-5 final set to win 7-5 against poor Kasatkina who could have done with a run here. Bianca looked just about dead on her feet towards the end, but still somehow managed to pull through. I'd imagine she'll have pretty much nothing left vs Bertens tomorrow, but good to see her back, and good for the tournament that she is still there.

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Wednesday 7th of August 2019 11:06:44 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Somebody said I should change my name to Frazer after the Doomladen character in Dad's Army. However wearing this hat I have to say that based on 2017,2018 and 1 tournament this year Jo is more likely to lose in the 1st round of the North American tour events(Canada,Cincinnati, US Open) and the 3 Asia events after the US Open than anything else. This is an up to date a total of 13 tournaments and so far Jo won 2 matches at Cincinnati in 2017, 2 in Montreal in 2018 and won in Tokyo against a doubles specialist. That leaves 10 first round defeats. On that basis I have no expectations for any success.. The only thing is that my expectations for clay court wins was similar and thankfully that was proved wrong.

Plus after Jo's clay season for some reason(s) you had very low expectations for her grass season. It didn't start great but if her North American hard court run can ultimately provide her with as much as the grass season did, then I think we'll take that.

And with reference to Michael's point, it does appear to me that Jo often takes time to get going again after time off and/or a surface change.

indiana · Tennis legend

Michael D wrote:
I guess that's what was fundamentally different about Venus and Serena... they could both go on dominating other players and winning throughout the year. Because no other women's player since then seems to have been able to do that (and of course as many did before the Williams too). But even those at the top of the women's game seem to come and go at the moment - look at Naomi Osaka, who has almost disappeared since the Aus Open (another struggling with mental balance and the weight of expectation). Ash Barty become's women's no 1 and promptly starts to lose matches again, and then all the rest, if they're fit, are as likely to lose in the first round as they are to win the final.. No consistency in the women's game at all at the moment.

Yes, the general glorious (?) uncertainty among the top women. Naomi O in live running reclaims the WR 1 spot ( she will soon have a few points to defend! ) but by the time they leave Toronto that could have transferred on to Karolina Pliskova.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

indiana wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Somebody said I should change my name to Frazer after the Doomladen character in Dad's Army. However wearing this hat I have to say that based on 2017,2018 and 1 tournament this year Jo is more likely to lose in the 1st round of the North American tour events(Canada,Cincinnati, US Open) and the 3 Asia events after the US Open than anything else. This is an up to date a total of 13 tournaments and so far Jo won 2 matches at Cincinnati in 2017, 2 in Montreal in 2018 and won in Tokyo against a doubles specialist. That leaves 10 first round defeats. On that basis I have no expectations for any success.. The only thing is that my expectations for clay court wins was similar and thankfully that was proved wrong.
Plus after Jo's clay season for some reason(s) you had very low expectations for her grass season. It didn't start great but if her North American hard court run can ultimately provide her with as much as the grass season did, then I think we'll take that.
And with reference to Michael's point, it does appear to me that Jo often takes time to get going again after time off and/or a surface change.

It was Jo's clay court season I had low expectations of unless she drew Rybarikova or Hsieh. I didn't make any comment about the grass court season. Mind you if you watched Jo play Ons Jabeur at Eastbourne you would not have rated her Wimbledon chances. Based on Eastbourne performances Karolina Pliskova would have won Wimbledon in a canter. For the future I notice that Jo has not entered the Pan Pacific now being held in Osaka.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Andreescu is quite something. She only properly burst on the scenes in January, but she's been a big miss these past 5 months since retiring in Miami (bar a brief cameo at RG). She's just won her 3rd successive 3 setter this week to make the quarter final, beating Bertens this time. She's had 39 matches this year, granted some were at 125k level, some at WTA quals and slam quals (AO) when her ranking wasn't as high, but she's only lost 4 matches, 3 three-setters, and that retirement loss to Kontaveit in Miami, which clearly was a genuine retirement. Just turned 19 as well, really hope her injury issues are behind her.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

It is interesting to look at the ITF Junior World Rankings of 2015. Top was Dalma Galfi who hasn't made it in the senior game. 2nd was Marketa Vondrousova who incidentally has only won one match since beating Jo in Paris. Not sure why she withdrew from Canada and Cincinnati. Third was Katie Swan. Fourth was Bianca Andreescu who is actually the youngest of quartet. The only other player to make an impact in the senior game from that year was the number 8th ranked player Sonya Kenin. Hope Andreescu can stay injury free now. There's too many young players whose careers have been ruined by injury. Most recently the top 2 highest ranking teenagers from 2017 in Bellis and Konjuh have been side lined for ages..

flamingowings · All-time great

Might it be a factor that these players are playing more, on the adult tour quite young and perhaps their bodies aren't ready for it?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

flamingowings wrote:
Might it be a factor that these players are playing more, on the adult tour quite young and perhaps their bodies aren't ready for it?

Or maybe there are many other youngsters sidelined with injury but we just don't notice them because they're relatively far down the rankings?

Tennis is certainly a problem, being such an asymmetric sport.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

flamingowings wrote:
Might it be a factor that these players are playing more, on the adult tour quite young and perhaps their bodies aren't ready for it?

The players certainly hit the ball harder these days in the past. Not sure what it is doing to young bodies.

Peter too · Tennis legend

It may be something to do with a change in playing styles brought about by new equipment. I remember when I was taught to play many years ago with the old heavy rackets, I was told to always keep my wrist locked. I was told that if I tried to use my wrist in a stroke I would very soon injure it. Is it the same today, with the lighter rackets, there must be a temptation to use the wrist to add a bit extra speed, speed or late change in direction? Has any research been carried out on players who suffer from lots of injuries compared with those who suffer few injuries?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Certainly players today are told to 'whip' it with the wrist - indeed, you can't play with top spin unless you do. In the days you mention with the old heavy racquets, you really didn't play with top spin at all.

But I don't think that's the problem - it's the change in racquets that mean you now can use the wrist safely and after all, not that many have wrist problems (and often it's not the hitting arm either).

ROSAMUND · Futures level

ROSAMUND wrote:
flamingowings wrote:
Might it be a factor that these players are playing more, on the adult tour quite young and perhaps their bodies aren't ready for it?
The players certainly hit the ball harder these days than in the past. Not sure what it is doing to young bodies.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Coup Droit wrote:
Certainly players today are told to 'whip' it with the wrist - indeed, you can't play with top spin unless you do. In the days you mention with the old heavy racquets, you really didn't play with top spin at all.

But I don't think that's the problem - it's the change in racquets that mean you now can use the wrist safely and after all, not that many have wrist problems (and often it's not the hitting arm either).

Re not that many have wrist problems, from a British point of view it's a pity Laura Robson was one of them.