Week 43 - ITF (W15) Antalya, Turkey Hard

Michael D · All-time great

Week 43 - ITF (W15) Antalya, Turkey Hard

DF · Tennis legend

DF wrote:
So will she try or retire?

Drama Queen retires. She does not seem to want to win and until this changes there is no point being on court.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Wouldn't want to be Anne Keothavong having to pick a Fed Cup squad at the moment what with injuries and lack of form. I was one of those people who thought Gabi should have played instead of Heather against Nara in the Fed Cup 18 months ago. Not on the evidence ever since.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

If you read about Gabi in the early months of 2018 and the Fed Cup selection it was all filled with optimism. You can definitely says it's gone completely downhill from then. She halved her ranking in the 1st half of 2018 and is now probably about 100 places below what it was when she started her climb. Is there a younger generation of players we should now be concentrating on?

indiana · Tennis legend

DF wrote:
DF wrote:
So will she try or retire?
Drama Queen retires. She does not seem to want to win and until this changes there is no point being on court.

So you know precisely the extent of any issues?

And depending on what these might be there can come a point on the scoreline when it may make more sense to retire rather than exacerbate a problem. Maybe it was touch anf go whether she played at all today, who knows.

Of course her general form relative to her talent has been pretty awful for a while, but condemning a retiral in such terms??

indiana · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
If you read about Gabi in the early months of 2018 and the Fed Cup selection it was all filled with optimism. You can definitely says it's gone completely downhill from then. She halved her ranking in the 1st half of 2018 and is now probably about 100 places below what it was when she started her climb. Is there a younger generation of players we should now be concentrating on?

Maybe a touch early to fling last year's new generation in the bin.

Yes, hopefully new players come through and Jodie certainly did this year before her injury. Fran and particularly Emma will hopefully have good advances.

But that youngish group that did so well last year, collectively surpassing most expectations, are still there. Yes, in general a tough year but hopefully a learning year. And to my mind when a certain level has undoubtably been shown, in the right conditions and set-up that level can be found again, and indeed for still youngish players improved on.

Michael D · All-time great

Whether Gabi will play Nantes or not is still not clear. She is not in the q draw, but she was 6th on the qual list, and the top q seed was all the way down at 11th on the list. So there have been a lot of withdrawals one way or another. I'm not expecting Gabi to be part of the MD line up but may well depend on why she withdrew today.

Nix · Futures level

When Ive seen Gabi play recently and struggle, it hasnt been capitulation in the sense of giving up trying. If anything its been more getting angry and berating herself and everything going on around her. The body language goes to pot too which I think encourages the opponents. Its worrying to me how many of our players have problems after such promising starts talent wise. Gabi, Katie S, Heather, Tara have all had problems with the psychological side of the game and even Jo before her Spanish team. I still wonder if this is an underdeveloped part of our coaching. Ive said this before and was told the LTA love that kind of thing but maybe their giving the wrong kind of support; lots of visualisations, positive thinking or something rather than how to deal with the pressures and loneliness of top level support .

ROSAMUND · Futures level

How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.

Not sure, Rosamund.

Surely Andy is one of the biggest culprits? Just last week, he was saying he was still doing it, still getting furious at himself, shouting at his team, being a real pain. And this is him, probably better than he used to be ten years ago when he was just awful for it.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.
Not sure, Rosamund.
Surely Andy is one of the biggest culprits? Just last week, he was saying he was still doing it, still getting furious at himself, shouting at his team, being a real pain. And this is him, probably better than he used to be ten years ago when he was just awful for it.
The difference is that Andy is a winner. The trouble is that the likes of Gabi is not.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.
Not sure, Rosamund.
Surely Andy is one of the biggest culprits? Just last week, he was saying he was still doing it, still getting furious at himself, shouting at his team, being a real pain. And this is him, probably better than he used to be ten years ago when he was just awful for it.
The difference is that Andy is a winner. The trouble is that the likes of Gabi is not.

Yes, that's my point.

That the LTA can't dislike players berating themselves when their very best player does exactly that. Because it DOES seem to produce successful players. Just not always.

Michael D · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.
Not sure, Rosamund.
Surely Andy is one of the biggest culprits? Just last week, he was saying he was still doing it, still getting furious at himself, shouting at his team, being a real pain. And this is him, probably better than he used to be ten years ago when he was just awful for it.
The difference is that Andy is a winner. The trouble is that the likes of Gabi is not.

Yes, that's my point.
That the LTA can't dislike players berating themselves when their very best player does exactly that. Because it DOES seem to produce successful players. Just not always.

I think it depends whether their behaviour helps them to refocus or does the opposite and dissipates their focus. I think you've said earlier CD that Jodie does this at times too, but it does seem to help her focus. Dan can chatter away too. With Gabi though once she starts to go down this track you know she's lost focus. When on it, she is usually very undemonstrative. For the most part, this is obviously a habit that it's better to discourage than encourage. Even for Andy, it's disconcerting to see him having a go at his team mid match. It's one of the things Lendl really didn't like. For most players, they can't start throwing their toys out of the pram AND stay on top of what they are supposed to be doing.

Nix · Futures level

ROSAMUND wrote:
How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.

Sorry I was confusing in my original post. I meant I was told that the LTA are hot on the psychological side of the game and not so much on the technical issues. But I was just wondering if it was the wrong kind of psychological input. Too much positive thinking/visualisations and not enough on how to deal with stress and things going wrong. Not suggesting the LTA is encouraging tennis rage!

Michael D · All-time great

Nix wrote:
ROSAMUND wrote:
How can the LTA love players berating themselves and getting angry ? It doesn't seem to produce successful players. It certainly hasn't done much for Gabi.
Sorry I was confusing in my original post. I meant I was told that the LTA are hot on the psychological side of the game and not so much on the technical issues. But I was just wondering if it was the wrong kind of psychological input. Too much positive thinking/visualisations and not enough on how to deal with stress and things going wrong. Not suggesting the LTA is encouraging tennis rage!

I think you're certainly right that they don't focus on the mental stress side nearly enough. Katy Dunne alluded to that too in the article posted in her individual thread, ie that this just doesn't tend to be nearly enough part of the set up of players when they are starting out.