Coup Droit wrote:

---

JonH comes home wrote:

---

Coup Droit wrote:

---

Yasmin, I hadn't commented on this match (or many other of Jay's ones recently, unless I'd watched them on livestream).

And everyone wishes Jay well, and is thrilled when things are going his way, and concerned in a 'normal' way when they're not.

But this is not a 'good news only' board. No one is rude but nobody has to pussyfoot around overly acute sensibilities. After all, madadman made a very balanced comment, pointing out good and bad. Priesty hardly went overboard.

People are entitled to their opinions. SC did not suggest he wasn't trying. She said 'would seem to imply....'. As in, she wasn't watching it on livestream but the score itself could give that impression.
Steven who was watching the game tweeted he didn't think either player was playing very well (especially in the first set) but the American was a bit more aggressive.
And if the comments were negative, despite the other guy supposedly playing unbelievably, that's a reflection of the previous recent events too, a cumulation - it's the fourth challenger in quick succession where Jay's lost in the first round. It's perfectly normal that people type negative comments - it doesn't mean he's not supported, it means people recognise it's a negative little period.

ADD: and I don't agree with Jon that just because one person does not like the comments that we should not make them. They were not out of order. They were not rude. 

---

 I didnt say that, I said we need to be respectful. You got that wrong

---

What I meant, Jon, was that you said Yasmin was right and that it was 'well said'. 

But we WERE respectful, IMO. Nothing disrespectful or rude had been posted.

---

 Again youve got it wrong. The well said comment was in general response to Yasmins post. I then went on to say we often dont know the situation and need to be careful, and we should be respectful. I used myself as an example as i can recall criticism Ive made of Liam, for example, and saying he should retire (around a year or so ago). I didnt say anyone in this thread has been disrespectful, just that we generally need to be respectful. 

YasminClarke wrote:

---

Thanks you all for taking the time to reply. Apologises if it came across sharp, I just felt the comments were unfair and unwarranted (if you had watched the match). Context really is everything and to be honest Im not sure what Steven was watching because I was sat courtside and I can tell you Ritschard was on fire!
With Jack aside Jay is only GB player under 25 regularly competing in Challenger events. The level difference between futures and challengers is stark and four first round losses in a row is pretty regular at this level, look at any main draw players bio. And Im also under no illusion this is a good news board, I have previously seen the good and bad posts about Jay but at the moment its as if youre writing him off at 23 and 195 in the world. In my opinion the fantastic thing about Jay is that he has so much more to learn and improve on and with the right support and guidance time will only tell.
I suppose with it being World Mental Health Day 2 days ago I expected a little more support, you should know players regularly read your board and can take the comments on here to heart. Saying that I should just take Coup Droits reply with a pinch of salt, you always favoured Ryan Storrie over Jay when they were juniors.

---

I came in here to see whether anyone had watched the 1st set because I was genuinely intrigued as to how the match had developed only to find that nobody had been live-commenting during the match and controversy kicked off a bit later. I should probably clarify my own tweets from the match though.

I had a bit of free time during the 2nd set and there were no other interesting matches on at the time, so I concentrated on it. I first saw the score after 8 games, assumed Jay must be having a nightmare serving day, checked the stats and they actually looked pretty good (not for service points won, obviously, but no double faults and 71% 1st serves in aren't the kind of stats you tend to see on a really bad serving day!)

Unfortunately, the first game I watched, they both made quite a few unforced errors, hence the 'neither of them seem to be playing that well' comment. Someone who'd been watching for longer put me right about that immediately, and I quote-RTd them, by which time Ritschard was playing much better, as it seems he had been for most of the match. That'll teach me to tweet after only watching for a few minutes. Ok, it probably won't teach me. 

My impression over the remaining games I watched was that Jay was definitely trying hard, though he must have been feeling a bit shell-shocked by that time, but that Ritschard was attacking/coming in at every opportunity and Jay was being given the runaround at the back of the court. I wonder (maybe those who watched the 1st set will be able to shed more light on this) whether Ritschard came out determined to be aggressive and it worked for him early on, increasing his confidence and decreasing Jay's such that the American was able to get himself on the front foot and Jay on the back foot more and more as the match went on. Perhaps if things had gone differently at the start (e.g. Ritschard had been passed a few times or had not made the lines early on), the whole match might have turned out differently. Quite a few of the games were close in any case.

Theemptyvessel made a good point about Liam and how for a while it looked as if he had dropped out of the top 200 never to return, but he has certainly found a way to thrive in the last year or so and actually, the way Jay played (or was being made to play) today reminded me that when Liam was low on confidence, if matches started to go against him, he'd often start to hit short, mid-court balls and not take any chances to play more positively - I know lots of people here found that frustrating and said so back then, but I'm pretty sure most of us here really like (and want the best for) both Liam and Jay, and are well aware that however frustrated we might be, the player is almost certainly infinitely more frustrated than we are. Maybe Jay's just in that kind of a dip at the moment, in which case there's every chance he can turn it around soon.

The dig at CD made me chuckle - I've seen enough of CD's posts over the years to know that he watches young players more than most of us, so if he thought Ryan was a better prospect than Jay at a certain age, that's likely to be because that was his genuine assessment, not some random favouritism. Obviously it's ok to disagree with his reasoning and then to be happy if he turns out to be wrong because your player does better than expected! 

I'm glad this is a forum that supports and wants the best for all the Brits but isn't a cultish fan forum, in the sense that people aren't afraid to ask questions, raise issues or even criticise, though of course we accept that we don't have anywhere close to full information most of the time. That's what being a committed but non-blinkered fan is all about. Some of the other regulars have already defended the forum better than I can though, so I won't go on about that here.

Anyway, I wish Jay all the best (I know he works hard and he's easy to like) and I'm sure I'm not alone on here in wishing that! 

 

A welcome change from yesterday:

L16:  Jay Clarke & Arjun Kadhe (IND) CR 1267 (1045+222) defeated Mats Hermans & Glenn Smits (NED/NED) CR 725 (380+345) by 6-3 7-6(6) 

*****

QF:  (1) Harri Heliövaara & Roman Jebavy (FIN/CZE) CR 167 (75+92) vs Jay Clarke & Arjun Kadhe (IND) CR 1267 (1045+222)

JonH comes home wrote:

---

YasminClarke wrote:

---

I occasionally read the board and I have to say Im pretty disappointed by the tone in which you regularly talk about my brother.
Hes 23 and has already won 2 challengers and 4 finals. Today the guy was pretty unbelievable, I havent watched a match like that in quite some time and to suggest he wasnt trying is just down right disrespectful.
Anyone who knows Jay knows how hard he works both on and off the court. From your comments you would think he was 500 and losing in futures qualies. Ritchsard was NCAA champion 3 times from 2014-16 so the guy knows how to play.
And yes he hasnt had a brilliant year but has still made a final, semi and a quarters. Of course we all want more and hes currently looking to secure a new coach to improve his game but the constant criticism from a supposed GB fans message board is pretty awful. Do better guys.

---

 Well said Yasmin and thank you for writing - you are right, we often don't know anything about a situation and also comment very readily and easily in judgmental terms - I know I do often. We need to realise there are often reasons and people / pros clearly do try. We also need to remember that their friends and families often read the board and we need to be respectful. Thank you for reminding us of that - and please wish Jay all the best; I think everyone on here really does wish him well and hopes he fulfils his potential.  

---

I missed this discussion yesterday but have been fascinated to catch up today.  Thank you for giving us your perspective Yasmin which I have found really interesting.  I hope Jay can get a good coach in place soon and push on again as I understand that getting the right fit can really help when dealing with the rigours of the tour.

Although I'm not suggesting for one moment that SC meant any disrespect by her comments on this occasion, I can well understand that any suggestion that a player isn't trying would be extremely hard to stomach.  As a slight aside I do agree with Yasmin that some of the comments on this board can be a bit harsh.  A few weeks ago when Aidan lost in the first round of Mouilleron-le-Captif someone described it as a "shameful loss" and I remember feeling horrified at the time although I decided not to comment and escalate matters.  I feel that no-one should be making that sort of comment unless they are in full possession of all the facts.  Most of us on this board have no idea what a tennis player is going through at the time of a match.  Maybe they are feeling under the weather, or have a close relative who is ill or has recently passed away.  Or they may be going through a relationship breakup.  I could go on, but the point is that players have lives outside the court too and there are an infinite number of factors which might have an effect on their performance so I feel sometimes we need to pause for thought before throwing out such comments.  Sorry but this has been playing on my mind and I felt this was my opportunity to put it into words.

Of course I know that 99.9% of us on this board are totally behind all the GB players and just want them to perform to their maximum potential, and I wish Jay and all the others well for the rest of the season.  I'm also grateful for the many hours of the pleasure they bring to my life.

 

I'm sorry but it is perfectly reasonable to critique someone's performance. That is in effect what review sites like trip advisor do. Run an independent restaurant and a rubbish trip advisor review is no different to this site really. I've had someone review my restaurant badly, complaining that the manager was disengaged and spent most of the time on the phone. As it happened my son dropped a bread knife on his foot, cut a vein and pumped blood all over the floor and up the cupboard doors. Did I bitch on trip advisor that it wasn't fair, no I sucked it up because I'm a professional and whatever the excuse I had was not the customers problem. We are in effect the consumer on here.

Thanks again for everyone commenting. I know theres no malice behind the comments, but for a player who may be low on confidence and has issues outside of the court losses are hard, especially when they read the message board.

Im not really sure what your point is Emmsie69 as you just did your bitching here rather than trip advisor? And youre not the consumer, rather a fan, you dont have any link or fund Jay, that would be the lta and his sponsors? Maybe Im oversimplifying.

In terms of coaching, covid made it increasingly difficult, Jay had just started with Paul Hanley but covid and lockdown (and him unable to leave Australia for 18 months) ruined that so Alex Lisiecki has been filling the void. Hes very experienced (but through no ones fault) hasnt had the results with Jay anyone would of liked. A couple of good options in the pipeline so fingers crossed for 2022.

Clearly touched a nerve here, I was simply replying to her and others posts, but quick to pick up on the negative, hence my initial point
Its a shame but I think its best I leave you all to it as Im sure whatever I say will be misinterpreted! Im a big believer in what my Mum always told us as children .. if you have nothing nice to say .and Ill leave it there