Week 29 - ATP 500 - European Open, Hamburg, Germany (clay) - doubles

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Week 29 - ATP 500 - European Open, Hamburg, Germany (clay) - doubles

wolf · Tennis legend

A titbit on Harri's blog

At the end, one more thing needs to be mentioned, which has changed since our last race in terms of rules. 11.7. since coaching during the match is allowed both verbally and by showing hand signals in ATP tournaments. The coach must sit in his own place, and the opponents must not be disturbed, but otherwise the ban on coaching, which has traditionally been a part of tennis, no longer applies. In my opinion, this rule change is really unfortunate, and not only because the man-against-man setup is removed.

In the case of the doubles game, it is also difficult to show hand signals, because today I went to make sure with the supervisor of the race that nothing prohibits the coach of the opposing side from showing his own players the hand signals or signals that we use. We'll see how this changes the signals used by the players in practice, but it's hard to believe that some couple wouldn't at least start using the coach's help in these situations. What do you think, will the hand signals be gradually removed completely, or will a gentleman's agreement be made in doubles so that the coaches do not repeat the opponents' signals? And how does coaching change singles games?

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

L16: Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37) defeated (2) Wesley Koolhof (NED) & Neal Skupski CR 11 (6+5) by 5 & 2 biggrin bleh

indiana · Tennis legend

wolf wrote:
A titbit on Harri's blog

At the end, one more thing needs to be mentioned, which has changed since our last race in terms of rules. 11.7. since coaching during the match is allowed both verbally and by showing hand signals in ATP tournaments. The coach must sit in his own place, and the opponents must not be disturbed, but otherwise the ban on coaching, which has traditionally been a part of tennis, no longer applies. In my opinion, this rule change is really unfortunate, and not only because the man-against-man setup is removed.
In the case of the doubles game, it is also difficult to show hand signals, because today I went to make sure with the supervisor of the race that nothing prohibits the coach of the opposing side from showing his own players the hand signals or signals that we use. We'll see how this changes the signals used by the players in practice, but it's hard to believe that some couple wouldn't at least start using the coach's help in these situations. What do you think, will the hand signals be gradually removed completely, or will a gentleman's agreement be made in doubles so that the coaches do not repeat the opponents' signals? And how does coaching change singles games?

In practice though with hand signals being given just before the serve how practical would it be for the receivers to be watching the serving players and also peering at their coach to see any hand signals and react to the information in the time available??

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just my tuppence-worth:

There's no point having a rule that is basically unenforceable. And also causes negative consequences.

So even if we don't want coaching (which I don't) I think getting rid of the 'no coaching from the stands' rule is the way to go because it's basically happening all the time anyway, despite the rule, and the umpire has to keep looking, and then gets lambasted when they miss it, and it all is just a mess.

So, say, fine, make all the coaching signals you want - it's nowhere near as intrusive to the game as on-court coaching and, anyway, it will just be a more transparent version of what's happening anyway.

And, as to the doubles hand signals, then, no, Harri, you can't ban passing those on, and you most certainly can't have a 'gentleman's agreement' (good luck with that one), you may well find that there's not enough time for it really to matter (as Indy says) or you'll just have to find a more complicated system, or just get your coach to show you their hand signals too - so it's all evens. Basically, evolve to deal with it.

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Not a fan, but as CD says, happening anyway. May have missed it, but does this coaching extend to Brit tours etc? If so sure there will be some delighted parents/coaches out there, not sure about the players.

Anyone remember the dad of J N-W (if you know, you know) who was always doing hand signals, tugging his cap etc? He was the most blatant I ever came across and any parent in the know made sure they stood behind him throughout the match.. hmm

wolf · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
In practice though with hand signals being given just before the serve how practical would it be for the receivers to be watching the serving players and also peering at their coach to see any hand signals and react to the information in the time available??

I've actually seen it happen at Birmingham WTA before. It was in a match with two singles players against two doubles specialists. The singles players had their coaches sitting directly behind and they were just giving the signals back to their players. The doubles specialists and the umpire were completely oblivious.

I'd say it's pretty easy to glance at your box and take in a couple of signals. It's not like the players signal then instantly serve. And then obviously a massive advantage if you know where the ball is being served and where the net player is going.

wolf · Tennis legend

Elegant Point wrote:
Not a fan, but as CD says, happening anyway. May have missed it, but does this coaching extend to Brit tours etc? If so sure there will be some delighted parents/coaches out there, not sure about the players.

As far as I'm aware it just on the ATP Tour not a rule on tennis as a whole. So not on WTA, ITF or national events.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

QF: Kevin Krawietz & Andreas Mies (GER/GER) CR 60 (25+35) vs Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37)

-- Edited by Stircrazy on Wednesday 20th of July 2022 10:39:35 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
QF: Kevin Krawietz & Sandrea Mies (GER/GER) CR 60 (25+35) vs Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37)

Your S is misaligned ! Its Andreas ! Sandrea Is his sister biggrin

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Wednesday 20th of July 2022 08:05:34 PM

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

QF: Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37) defeated Kevin Krawietz & Andreas Mies (GER/GER) CR 60 (25+35) by 6-1 7-6(0) biggrin

*****

SF: (3) Tim Pütz & Michael Venus (GER/NZL) CR 26 (15+11) vs Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37)

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Lloyd and Harri going well this week!

Rich2310 · County player

Lloyd struggled along for so long in singles it's nice to see him doing so well now in doubles.

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Lloyd and Harri going well this week!

Not half

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

SF: Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37) defeated (3) Tim Pütz & Michael Venus (GER/NZL) CR 26 (15+11) by 4 & 4 biggrin

*****

Final: (4) Rohan Bopanna & Matwé Middelkoop (IND/NED) CR 44 (21+23) vs Lloyd Glasspool & Harri Heliövaara (FIN) CR 78 (41+37)