British Tennis Forum - Celebrating 20 Years!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

GB women depth - should we be concerned?

Var · Challenger qualifying

Coup Droit wrote:
The whole idea of comparing all our girls to Iva, though, is a bit daft, IMO

Yes, Iva is doing great.

But choosing one out of a hundred isn't representative

In juniors, Iva lost to Glozman, Kostovic, Samson, Grant, Jones etc. etc. etc.

As well as Mika and Hannah

You can't put a finger on what made Iva zoom through but the others not

And, because you can't, I don't think it's worthwhile trying

Honestly, I don't really look at top-10

We haven't had a top-10 player for nearly 10 years, and then we only had one. (who also, conincidentally, took a lot longer than 2-3 years to reach her max, and be top-5) When was the one before that?

I honestly don't think you can set up a system to produce a top-10 player

To me, you need to set up a system that produces top-50 players (or even top-100) and then hope that the vagaries of life means one of those might come through. It's a numbers game - load the bases and some will score

I suppose maybe I cant help looking for some sort of correlation! So random it is CD!

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes CD, I've certainly been much more thinking general numbers.

And overall, you have indeed been far from reassuring! Unfortunately I have found your testmony the most convincing ( I am still a bit in High Court juror mode from last week ), outweighing such as possible quality recruits in numbers from US College, our junior ranks, and the injured - though I appreciate all who have been adding to the discussions.

It means we must hope for a large percentage of a limited number to make it ( we are arguably lucky just now to have 4 players in or around the top 100 which is good for now ), and also it is just less interesting having a smaller pool in say top 250 / top 500 women players to follow, and see make good runs, win titles, and move up the rankings.

GAMEOVER · Satellite level

Coup Droit wrote:
The whole idea of comparing all our girls to Iva, though, is a bit daft, IMO

Yes, Iva is doing great.

But choosing one out of a hundred isn't representative

In juniors, Iva lost to Glozman, Kostovic, Samson, Grant, Jones etc. etc. etc.

As well as Mika and Hannah

You can't put a finger on what made Iva zoom through but the others not

And, because you can't, I don't think it's worthwhile trying

Honestly, I don't really look at top-10

We haven't had a top-10 player for nearly 10 years, and then we only had one. (who also, conincidentally, took a lot longer than 2-3 years to reach her max, and be top-5) When was the one before that?

I honestly don't think you can set up a system to produce a top-10 player

To me, you need to set up a system that produces top-50 players (or even top-100) and then hope that the vagaries of life means one of those might come through. It's a numbers game - load the bases and some will score

Re the top 10 player before Jo Konta, I think that was Jo Durie back in 1983-84 only 43 years ago.

Peter too · Tennis legend

Injury has held a lot of our girls back, remember Laura Robson, won junior Wimbledon at age 14, beat Jo Konta as a junior rising to 38 in the world after beating a former Grand Slam winner, then had wrist operations and was never the same player again. Katie B. held back through injury, same for Emma, Fran and Katie S. Is something in our training leading to injuries or are girls from other countries protected more by training/playing on clay rather than hard courts in their early years.

dodrade · Futures qualifying

GAMEOVER wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
The whole idea of comparing all our girls to Iva, though, is a bit daft, IMO

Yes, Iva is doing great.

But choosing one out of a hundred isn't representative

In juniors, Iva lost to Glozman, Kostovic, Samson, Grant, Jones etc. etc. etc.

As well as Mika and Hannah

You can't put a finger on what made Iva zoom through but the others not

And, because you can't, I don't think it's worthwhile trying

Honestly, I don't really look at top-10

We haven't had a top-10 player for nearly 10 years, and then we only had one. (who also, conincidentally, took a lot longer than 2-3 years to reach her max, and be top-5) When was the one before that?

I honestly don't think you can set up a system to produce a top-10 player

To me, you need to set up a system that produces top-50 players (or even top-100) and then hope that the vagaries of life means one of those might come through. It's a numbers game - load the bases and some will score
Re the top 10 player before Jo Konta, I think that was Jo Durie back in 1983-84 only 43 years ago.

Emma was also briefly in the Top 10 following her US Open victory.

I know everyone develops at their own pace but its hard not to be frustrated when you see our best young players being swiftly left behind by contemporaries like Jovic, Emerson Jones, Joint (beaten by Isabelle Lacy in 2023), Eala (beaten by Matilda in 2021) and Moboko (beaten by Ranah Stoiber in 2022).

I still think Hannah, Mika and Mimi are too talented not to come good but I did expect faster progress given where they were a couple of years ago. Megan Knight seems to have taken a wrong turning in France but hopefully that can be rectified before any long term damage. Sofia Johnson looks promising and Alicia Dudeney has done well since graduation, hopefully college Tennis will help Brooke Black's game too. April Sackflame also seems a bright prospect for the 2030's.

HarryGem · County player

dodrade wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
The whole idea of comparing all our girls to Iva, though, is a bit daft, IMO

Yes, Iva is doing great.

But choosing one out of a hundred isn't representative

In juniors, Iva lost to Glozman, Kostovic, Samson, Grant, Jones etc. etc. etc.

As well as Mika and Hannah

You can't put a finger on what made Iva zoom through but the others not

And, because you can't, I don't think it's worthwhile trying

Honestly, I don't really look at top-10

We haven't had a top-10 player for nearly 10 years, and then we only had one. (who also, conincidentally, took a lot longer than 2-3 years to reach her max, and be top-5) When was the one before that?

I honestly don't think you can set up a system to produce a top-10 player

To me, you need to set up a system that produces top-50 players (or even top-100) and then hope that the vagaries of life means one of those might come through. It's a numbers game - load the bases and some will score
Re the top 10 player before Jo Konta, I think that was Jo Durie back in 1983-84 only 43 years ago.
Emma was also briefly in the Top 10 following her US Open victory.
I know everyone develops at their own pace but its hard not to be frustrated when you see our best young players being swiftly left behind by contemporaries like Jovic, Emerson Jones, Joint (beaten by Isabelle Lacy in 2023), Eala (beaten by Matilda in 2021) and Moboko (beaten by Ranah Stoiber in 2022).
I still think Hannah, Mika and Mimi are too talented not to come good but I did expect faster progress given where they were a couple of years ago. Megan Knight seems to have taken a wrong turning in France but hopefully that can be rectified before any long term damage. Sofia Johnson looks promising and Alicia Dudeney has done well since graduation, hopefully college Tennis will help Brooke Black's game too. April Sackflame also seems a bright prospect for the 2030's.

I knew the Jovic comparison would cause a bit of a stir which is why I made it in a way. However, I do think it is worth it as, we, as a tennis nation, should be challenging all the things we do to make our players the best they can be.

So the question of why a player, very much the equal of our juniors just over a year ago, is now so much better is something we should at least consider. It is not the individual comparison per se but more the overall questions that need to be raised. Are other countries/players etc doing things that we can learn from to make our players better?

Maybe we do that maybe we don't. I'm not enough of an expert to say but, as dodrade says above, it is a bit frustrating at times to see our young top players being left behind by their contemporaries. I know young players develop at different speeds etc.

And yes we can aim for top 50 players but that isn't how you realise the best outcomes in my opinion. Look at rowing and cycling. They don't aim for finishing outside the top 3 they aim for the top. Maybe we don't cast our search wide enough to find potential talent? I'm not saying it wouldn't be good to have a group of top 50 players, it would be. But, I always get the sense that there is a certain amount of, "well we've never been terribly good have we so we shouldn't expect that to change.

Var · Challenger qualifying

HarryGem wrote:
dodrade wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
The whole idea of comparing all our girls to Iva, though, is a bit daft, IMO

Yes, Iva is doing great.

But choosing one out of a hundred isn't representative

In juniors, Iva lost to Glozman, Kostovic, Samson, Grant, Jones etc. etc. etc.

As well as Mika and Hannah

You can't put a finger on what made Iva zoom through but the others not

And, because you can't, I don't think it's worthwhile trying

Honestly, I don't really look at top-10

We haven't had a top-10 player for nearly 10 years, and then we only had one. (who also, conincidentally, took a lot longer than 2-3 years to reach her max, and be top-5) When was the one before that?

I honestly don't think you can set up a system to produce a top-10 player

To me, you need to set up a system that produces top-50 players (or even top-100) and then hope that the vagaries of life means one of those might come through. It's a numbers game - load the bases and some will score
Re the top 10 player before Jo Konta, I think that was Jo Durie back in 1983-84 only 43 years ago.
Emma was also briefly in the Top 10 following her US Open victory.
I know everyone develops at their own pace but its hard not to be frustrated when you see our best young players being swiftly left behind by contemporaries like Jovic, Emerson Jones, Joint (beaten by Isabelle Lacy in 2023), Eala (beaten by Matilda in 2021) and Moboko (beaten by Ranah Stoiber in 2022).
I still think Hannah, Mika and Mimi are too talented not to come good but I did expect faster progress given where they were a couple of years ago. Megan Knight seems to have taken a wrong turning in France but hopefully that can be rectified before any long term damage. Sofia Johnson looks promising and Alicia Dudeney has done well since graduation, hopefully college Tennis will help Brooke Black's game too. April Sackflame also seems a bright prospect for the 2030's.

I knew the Jovic comparison would cause a bit of a stir which is why I made it in a way. However, I do think it is worth it as, we, as a tennis nation, should be challenging all the things we do to make our players the best they can be.
So the question of why a player, very much the equal of our juniors just over a year ago, is now so much better is something we should at least consider. It is not the individual comparison per se but more the overall questions that need to be raised. Are other countries/players etc doing things that we can learn from to make our players better?
Maybe we do that maybe we don't. I'm not enough of an expert to say but, as dodrade says above, it is a bit frustrating at times to see our young top players being left behind by their contemporaries. I know young players develop at different speeds etc.
And yes we can aim for top 50 players but that isn't how you realise the best outcomes in my opinion. Look at rowing and cycling. They don't aim for finishing outside the top 3 they aim for the top. Maybe we don't cast our search wide enough to find potential talent? I'm not saying it wouldn't be good to have a group of top 50 players, it would be. But, I always get the sense that there is a certain amount of, "well we've never been terribly good have we so we shouldn't expect that to change.

I think that is spot on Harry Gem. Throwing quantity at the issue doesnt necessarily bring results. A good analogy with other sports, especially Olympic sports where funding is much more ruthless. Another factor maybe other sports that the most talented athletes are attracted to. Tennis can be a lonely game.

-- Edited by Var on Sunday 5th of April 2026 05:10:49 PM

Pierrot · Strong Club Player

The last 12 months

Pierrot · Strong Club Player

	Curr.	High	Low	Average	+/- from high	Movement	Mov. %
Emma Raducanu	28	24	49	33.3	-16.67%	25	75.00%
Sonay Kartal	55	48	81	59.7	-14.58%	33	55.31%
Katie Boulter	64	38	120	66.9	-68.42%	82	122.54%
Francesca Jones	101	66	126	91.1	-53.03%	60	65.87%
Harriet Dart	181	117	246	179.0	-54.70%	129	72.07%
Mingge Xu	249	234	428	305.3	-6.41%	194	63.55%
Katie Swan	264	264	1114	499.4	0.00%	850	170.20%
Mika Stojsavljevic	276	274	1039	570.2	-0.73%	765	134.17%
Heather Watson	289	143	289	218.5	-102.10%	146	66.82%
Yuriko Lily Miyazaki	295	245	300	263.8	-20.41%	55	20.85%
	Curr.	High	Low	Average	+/- from high	Movement	Mov. %
Amarni Banks	359	265	359	306.3	-35.47%	94	30.69%
Alicia Dudeney	375	375	1400	749.0	0.00%	1025	136.85%
Emily Appleton	479	356	479	391.7	-34.55%	123	31.40%
Jodie Burrage	495	144	495	240.3	-243.75%	351	146.10%
Amelia Rajecki	432	397	521	435.1	-8.82%	124	28.50%
Naiktha Bains	380	380	531	452.3	0.00%	151	33.38%
Ranah Stoiber	468	425	560	480.2	-10.12%	135	28.12%

Movement/Mov. % is an attempt at a volatility index. Figures for last 12 months.

-- Edited by Pierrot on Sunday 5th of April 2026 05:11:05 PM

Andy Parker · Club Coach

Should we be concerned - the premise of the original post?

My own take is not based on number crunching and stats, but simply that it feels as if we are in a bit of a transition right now, a temporary dip perhaps, but not one that makes me feel that our tennis is any worse off than we have been over the last few years.

I'm not really sure how much of our top 4 that Sonay, Fran or Katie B are going to progress in terms of ranking from where they are now - lots of reasons I say this - age for Katie B, injuries for Fran and just not sure how high Sonay will go, though she does continue to surprise me.

With Emma, amything is possible, but since the US Open win, she hasn't really looked likely to win a Grand Slam again, or make the top 4 o 5 in rankings.

I think then if ou look at a lot of our other higher ranked players, with Lily and Heather it feels as if they are beginning to slide down the rankings, and with Jodie and Katie Swan, yes the potential is there, but overcoming their injuries is a major issue.

The leaves the ones for the future - I have good hopes for Mika, Mimi and Hannah and I think that Alicia is the player who has caught the eye in the early part of the season - but it does feel like a transition here - we are going to have to wait a couple of years for each of these players to improve quite a bit, and of course it may not happen - they are exciting prospects, but too early to judge how good they will be.

Overall though, I feel that we will probably be stronger in a couple of years than we are now and so for me the glass is still a little more than half full.

It is right to think back to the days of Jo Durie and beyond - when not only did we have less strength in depth, but there were far fewer countries producing decent tennis players, and if there is one thing to consider, it is now that many more countries produce a good amount of top tennis players than was the case 20 or 30 years agp, which means that for me, globally the competition is tougher for our women, as it is for every country.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Wednesday 8th of April 2026 11:07:22 PM

Peter too · Tennis legend

When I first started copying results across to the Rusedski pages, we hadn't had a woman in the top 30 for nine years. Several were knocking on the door: Elena Baltacha,Anne Keothavong, Katie O'Brian, Mel South and Naomi Cavaday until finally Anne played through a revolution to win a title that took her over the line, before making a dash to the border to escape the mayhem going on round her.

-- Edited by Peter too on Friday 10th of April 2026 03:13:17 AM

Lambda · Masters Series Champion

Mika, Harriet and Jodie say dont be concerned, our depth is just fine, thank you. biggrin

indiana · Tennis legend

Lambda wrote:
Mika, Harriet and Jodie say dont be concerned, our depth is just fine, thank you.

Ha, expected such a comment. biggrin

Though my concerns are really wider than our top 10 and remain. And re some earlier discussion I don't really equate tennis with Olympic funded sports where they just so concentrate on looking towards the very top and to heck with depth and playing the numbers game and building a healthier wider sport. It's bring in the medals. Of course such pick out and concentration may be some folk's thoughts as to the best way for Slam and top team competition success. That to my mind is very debatable and would also probably leave a generally weaker GB sport with less general interest for followers like us

dodrade · Futures qualifying

Lambda wrote:
Mika, Harriet and Jodie say don't be concerned, our depth is just fine, thank you.

Hopefully they can maintain their performance this weekend across the rest of the season.