British Tennis Forum - Celebrating 20 Years!

indiana · Tennis legend

FIFA World Cup 2026 - Canada/Mexico/USA

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Seriously, I am fairly sure that quite a number of 3rd placed teams will get through on 3 points with goal difference probably then the determining factor. There is a chance though that simply having 3 points will do but that would certainly need results falling the right way for at least 4 groups to have their 3rd place team on 2 points or less, for starters their bottom 2 teams would have to draw with each other.

Except that FIFA's been mucking about with the way in which the league tables in the group stage of this expanded (bloated) World Cup are determined - report by the Beeb yesterday, updated earlier today. A couple of key sentences:

For the first time at a World Cup, Fifa is using head-to-head records instead of group goal difference as the primary tiebreaker for teams level on points. And the change is already being felt, with Haiti and Turkey both going out of the World Cup despite only being three points behind the team in third.

indiana · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
indiana wrote:
Seriously, I am fairly sure that quite a number of 3rd placed teams will get through on 3 points with goal difference probably then the determining factor. There is a chance though that simply having 3 points will do but that would certainly need results falling the right way for at least 4 groups to have their 3rd place team on 2 points or less, for starters their bottom 2 teams would have to draw with each other.
Except that FIFA's been mucking about with the way in which the league tables in the group stage of this expanded (bloated) World Cup are determined - report by the Beeb yesterday, updated earlier today. A couple of key sentences:
For the first time at a World Cup, Fifa is using head-to-head records instead of group goal difference as the primary tiebreaker for teams level on points. And the change is already being felt, with Haiti and Turkey both going out of the World Cup despite only being three points behind the team in third.

Yes. However having arrived at the 3rd placed teams, the determinants for ordering the best 3rd placed teams from the 12 groups will be points, then goal difference, then goals scored.

JonH · Tennis legend

Im good with head to head in groups. If you beat someone when you played, thats fair enough. They do that in the tennis masters finals as well, head to head when its a two way tie.

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH wrote:
Im good with head to head in groups. If you beat someone when you played, thats fair enough. They do that in the tennis masters finals as well, head to head when its a two way tie.

Hmm, the effect of having head to head rather than GD as the next divider after points isn't helping the competitiveness of the final group matches. As this BBC article points out we are still to complete all the 2nd matches and 4 nations are already locked in as group winners ( Mexico, USA, Germany and Argentina ), while not being more than 3 points ahead of the 2nd team. And also 4 teams are already out.

This lack of jeopardy could lead to known group winners playing weakened teams in their final group matches, potentially boosting other teams' points and GD, to the potential detriment of say Scotland playing Brazil who do still have a position to play for.

And we are also potentially at the mercy of the other issue the article raises, being in an early finishing group, with teams in later groups having more idea of what they need to do to say clinch one of the best 3rds.

Bah ! I'd already been thinking some of this and the article sets it all out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdejryxlkxro

indiana · Tennis legend

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cdejryxlkxro

JonH · Tennis legend

Watched England on the train from London to Leeds last night with attendant poor signal and buffering on my phone - lner WiFi is so bad! - and it was a frustrating watch. Totally controlled and never in danger, save a late penalty shout for Ghana that perhaps should have been given, we never looked lively or had enough ideas or flair to beat the low block.

No doom and gloom and we will surely beat Panama - who are out - to progress to the knock out. Cape Verde currently await us there, perhaps, based on current standings. DR Congo also quite highly possibly opponents.

Scotland tonight versus Brazil. I think Scotland will get through with 3 points, so long as they keep goal difference low, but a point would be super and see them to what looks like a match against Mexico - in Mexico.

As an Englishman, Come on Scotland!

JonH · Tennis legend

Well, Scotland find themselves in a bit of a schtick now. And quite a bit of their own making.

With South Africa winning overnight, South Korea are in third place and ahead of Scotland in the third place list. As it stands, Scotland stand 7th of the 8 teams that could go through but 9 groups still to finish - it feels like the odds could be against them.

What i dont get is that it feels like Scotland wont know until Sunday if they are through, and who, when and where they will play. One of the options for their group 3rd placed team takes them to a match on Monday. How does that work? If they dont know until Sunday how can they prepare, travel etc for a match the next day? The team let alone the fans?

Maybe Im missing something in that - the 3 options for Scotland are Germany in Boston on Monday; group I winners in New Jersey on Tuesday or Mexico in Mexico City on Tuesday.

But they wont know until Sunday?

indiana · Tennis legend

Pretty awful.

That team doesn't deserve the lucky breaks that could in theory yet get them through ( I can't be bothered working out what these are or consider theoretical KO options ). That team doesn't deserve its supporters.

Barely a whimper in front of goal over the 3 matches, without mentioning the defence.. Literally didn't have a shot on target for over 3 hours from our one deflected goal in the first half vs Haiti until the second half vs Brazil. Decent late rally in defeat against a coasting Brazil to get one back on the goal difference? Nope. They are not good but haven't nearly given the best account of a not good team.

After Euros 2024, another finals tournament that we just haven't turned up for.

Angry disillusioned, whatever, I don't know.

Let's hope that the rest of the World Cup is great with good teams giving the best account of themselves.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

The Beeb questions the wisdom/fairness of this year's bloated, 48-team World Cup & concludes:

But this has been Fifa's choice. The World Cup did not need to be expanded, but it was part of the manifesto on which Gianni Infantino was elected in 2016. Maybe it will give Infantino a reason to restore the tournament to a perfect number. Not reducing [it] to 32, but increasing [it] to 64.

JonH · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
The Beeb questions the wisdom/fairness of this year's bloated, 48-team World Cup & concludes:
But this has been Fifa's choice. The World Cup did not need to be expanded, but it was part of the manifesto on which Gianni Infantino was elected in 2016. Maybe it will give Infantino a reason to restore the tournament to a perfect number. Not reducing [it] to 32, but increasing [it] to 64.

Itll go to 64 for sure, wont ever go back. 64 is fine, in terms of structure it works and to be honest, if every country in the world gets to play pretty much we may as well have 64 as have 48.

what they need to do is sort out the qualifying process now as it is becoming pointless . If 1 in 3 teams qualifies, lets reduce that bloated charade to something more sensible. And stop find a way to stop Italy qualifying!

I have actually missed Italy - a World Cup should have them and a USA World Cup with the large Italian heritage, in cities like New York, would have given them a lot of support.

christ · Challenger qualifying

If I recall my high school geography correctly, there are only about 200-and-something countries in the world: 256 is only two knockout rounds bigger than 64. So the inventor of the FIFA peace prize (Gold Special Edition) may as well go the whole hog and start with a round of 256 - eight rounds later there will be only one.

(A preliminary league round may take a while that way, though)

indiana · Tennis legend

Quelle Surprise!

Germany, one of these teams with nothing to play for thanks to the introduction of head to head having already gusranteed they top the grouo, iose to Ecuador who go 3rd on 4 points. That was a group that had looked good for Scotland.

Was expecting a few strange results in the final group games.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Scotland are pretty much gone without a freak set of results.

JonH · Tennis legend

Austria and Algeria play last and both need a draw to progress. Lets see how that works out.